Eventlet is at a dead end. We want to help you get out of it! #824
Comments
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Hi there, I totally agree with @4383 about the free software ressource and so on. Also about eventlet and the fact at a lot of projects still depends of it. Actually in openstack we are victim of that depends and as said @4383 it will be very great if we can help with the maintenance of the project. |
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I would gladly help and grant rights to new maintainers, however I do not have access to those settings. @temoto ? |
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Well said, @4383! I too offer my assistance to help get eventlet back on track! |
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Thanks for posting this, @4383. Just noting as the original author of the OpenStack ML thread linked above, that I'm also invested in helping ensure this gets back to a reasonable maintenance point with an off-ramp for those who desire one, and to leave it in a better state if anyone wants to continue maintenance once OpenStack has migrated. Just generally as well -- I hope @temoto and others who have helped build eventlet do get a chance to see this; thanks for helping to build this library and keep it going for years. |
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Hey all, I believe the summary of the status quo is rather accurate and the offer is both justified and welcome. I have admin access and I'm with @edwardgeorge in that I'd gladly add new maintainers. I wouldn't want to do it unilaterally though and I'd like to hear from at least some other members of the team first. If there's no feedback from the rest for some time I'll consider acting on that. |
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@jstasiak do you know who has ownership of the pypi.org project for publishing released versions? |
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I can publish new versions but I don't have access to add new PyPI maintainers. https://pypi.org/project/eventlet/ see the Maintainers list |
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Yes, makes sense openstack is probably biggest hostage in this lack of
resource situation.
Actionable:
- please write here or at ***@***.*** list of pypi accounts to grant
deploy access. They must be traceable/verifiable to openstack in any simple
way.
- please contact Nat on support of eventlet.net domain
Debatable: when you're going to sunset eventlet as whole, please leave room
for new interested party to support it, like now.
…On Fri, 8 Dec 2023, 15:55 Hervé Beraud, ***@***.***> wrote:
Hi Eventlet maintainers,
We are aware that, currently, eventlet face a cruel lack of human
resources. This is a growing issue since 2-3 years.
Lack of resources is a recurring problem in the economy of the open source
projects [1]. Maintainers of open source projects have bills to pay and a
private life. We, users of open source projects, must thanks hundred of
time these maintainers, who, on their free time, carry out all these small
projects which make all technology around us run on a daily basis.
The result of all this is a significant drop in activity or even a
abandonment of maintenance of certain projects, due to lack of time, money,
or motivation. All these reasons are legit.
Eventlet is currently in this specific case.
Eventlet is in danger. Its health and its future are threatened. The
health and future of projects that rely on eventlet are threatened.
A significant part of the python ecosystem is currently in a cold sweat
about its own future. Many developers see a cloud of sleepless nights
looming on the horizon of their evening. Others have a painful keyboard
from biting their fingers until they bleed.
Almost all Python users all around the world already used eventlet at
least once, probably without even knowing it. Indeed, Eventlet alone
represents more than 62 million downloads. Eventlet is downloaded more than
1,300 million times every month.
https://www.pepy.tech/projects/eventlet
More than 32 thousand projects are based on eventlet, and among them we
can cite Openstack, Celery, PgAdmin, numerous Flask and Django add-ons,
etc...
https://github.com/eventlet/eventlet/network/dependents
If Eventlet collapses then entire parts of new technologies could collapse
with it.
Growing compatibility issues between eventlet and recent versions of
CPython are reaching a critical point. de facto, these problems threaten
all users of this library.
- #817 <#817>
- #820 <#820>
- #823 <#823>
Openstack is the first victim of these issues:
***@***.***/thread/YO5CZDVAJ6QSF734ALWSGNOQDDAIOXKI/#RZFUTBFTUCSHKVA6SOCWWIXEH3QJHMYT
We, developers from the Openstack community, offer to provide you with our
help and support. We propose to come with you and strengthen your workforce
and help you get eventlet back up and running for the next versions of
Python to come.
To accept our help, you just have to grant writing rights to the eventlet
repo to some of us. We could then help you manage reviews and PRs. We could
help you manage backlogs. We could help you in managing the daily life of
eventlet. You'll benefit from more resources at no cost.
We have already initiated discussions on this subject within Openstack
governance.
https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/902585
Our long-term goal is to migrate Openstack to asyncio, however in the
short and medium term we still need eventlet. Our mutual needs converge, so
it would be a shame not to mutually benefit from them. It should be noted
that in the long term (around 4 years), our goal will be to retire from
eventlet (if everything goes as planned), and therefore, in the case that
no one else is willing to maintain anymore eventlet, we will then retire
eventlet. A planned retirement, hopefully with a complete migration plan to
asyncio. An honorable end to a memorable project.
You can find more details about your plan in our Openstack governance
discussion.
https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/902585
Let's go a long way together, let's save eventlet!
[1] https://www.sonatype.com/hubfs/9th-Annual-SSSC-Report.pdf
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Done: @jstasiak @tipabu and @nat-goodspeed full access in github eventlet org. @jstasiak and @nat-goodspeed full access in PyPI, don't know Tim username there. |
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Thanks @temoto for the decade+ you've spent creating and keeping eventlet going. If you, or the other maintainers, wish to give openstack access in pypi; that username is openstackci as documented here: https://docs.opendev.org/opendev/infra-manual/latest/creators.html#give-opendev-permission-to-publish-releases I'm sure we'll figure out, over time, what the technical shape of the future maintenance of eventlet will look like. |
Sure, we will leave room if someone else is interested by eventlet in the future. Do you mind also adding us, at least @jeckersb, @damani42 , and myself (@4383) to the list of granted persons on github and pypi? My pypi username is 4383 (https://pypi.org/user/4383/). Thanks for all your replies, that's really nice. |
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Hi, I'd probably be available to help with development at least in the short term, and see PRs I've already put up. Also worth sharing my experience reviving another open source project, https://github.com/jupyter-incubator/sparkmagic/, where the original author was no longer around. What I did once I got access was:
In the end only one person stuck around, but they have been maintaining the project (reviewing PRs and the like) for a few years now, and I'm not involved any more. So that was a success. However, I don't think that specific process should be followed here, at least to begin with:
So I would suggest a first pass of project and process infrastructure upgrades as in the last bullet point with the goal of making the project more robust to changes, followed by a pass on bug fixes from pending PRs, and then thinking about next steps. |
Done, I just sent a GH organization invitation. You have PyPI access to manage things on that side. |
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I will create an pypy account and give to @temoto later. Thanks for the right on github. |
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I just added the maintainers team to the repository, seems like it was missing from there accidentally. https://github.com/orgs/eventlet/teams/maintainers GitHub's permission system truly confuses me sometimes. |
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Cross-referencing for visibility: #827 (comment)
This is to allow fixing the build piece by piece (which is broken now for more than one reason I believe so will require multiple PRs to fix). |
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Any work left to do here, or can we close this? |
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Just one question, how to rerun github actions (tests) for a specific PR? From the UI, apparently I'm not able to request a new build, and if I want to request a new one, I'd have to request a forced push to the author of the given PR. Not sure if this lack of rerun button is related to my current status in the eventlet repo, or if it is simply by github design. Are you able to rerun actions? Else, I think we can now re-enable mandatory green builds to allow merges. Once done, I think we can close it. |
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Yeah this is a good question. The button should be there. Take two PRs with failing builds:
Why is it sometimes missing – I have truly no clue and I'd like to understand it.
There's a workaround for cases where the Re-run button is missing. I just enabled the "Always suggest updating pull request branches" option in the repository settings, which means that if there are newer commits in the Even if the newly triggered CI workflow fails there should hopefully be a "Re-run jobs" button there this time.
Done. Keep in mind the configuration needs to be updated when you add new jobs (like new Python versions, new configurations), all jobs required to succeed need to be listed in the repository settings by hand, sadly. |
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Thanks for details. Will use the |
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I think we are now able to close this issue. Thanks everyone for your contributions, I think we made together a significant step forward! |
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As far as I know, CNAME for 2 level domain is not supported by general DNS infrastructure, only available on AWS Route 53. If current DNS hosting supports ANAME/ALIAS -- that is super awesome and most straightforward way. Redirect hosting to eventlet.readthedocs.io is another option. Much less fancy but bulletproof. |
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@nat-goodspeed: The readthedocs documentation say (source https://docs.readthedocs.io/en/stable/guides/custom-domains.html):
I was simply thinking redirecting |
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Hello @nat-goodspeed, do you have any updates concerning the domain name redirect? |
In accordance with our recent maintenance goals we sets [1][2] and in accordance with the recent addition of the asyncio hub [3], this patch proposes to deprecate all the other existing hubs, the non asyncio hubs, to encourage users to start their migration to asyncio. [1] eventlet#835 [2] eventlet#824 [3] eventlet#868
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Hey everyone, just a random comment from me: thank you for all your work pushing this forward, fixing things and otherwise taking care of the project. I don't think it's only my opinion that this is much appreciated. |
Hi Eventlet maintainers,
We are aware that, currently, eventlet face a cruel lack of human resources. This is a growing issue since 2-3 years.
Lack of resources is a recurring problem in the economy of the open source projects [1]. Maintainers of open source projects have bills to pay and a private life. We, users of open source projects, must thanks hundred of time these maintainers, who, on their free time, carry out all these small projects which make all technology around us run on a daily basis.
The result of all this is a significant drop in activity or even a abandonment of maintenance of certain projects, due to lack of time, money, or motivation. All these reasons are legit.
Eventlet is currently in this specific case.
Eventlet is in danger. Its health and its future are threatened. The health and future of projects that rely on eventlet are threatened.
A significant part of the python ecosystem is currently in a cold sweat about its own future. Many developers see a cloud of sleepless nights looming on the horizon of their evening. Others have a painful keyboard from biting their fingers until they bleed.
Almost all Python users all around the world already used eventlet at least once, probably without even knowing it. Indeed, Eventlet alone represents more than 62 million downloads. Eventlet is downloaded more than 1,300 million times every month.
https://www.pepy.tech/projects/eventlet
More than 32 thousand projects are based on eventlet, and among them we can cite Openstack, Celery, PgAdmin, numerous Flask and Django add-ons, etc...
https://github.com/eventlet/eventlet/network/dependents
If Eventlet collapses then entire parts of new technologies could collapse with it.
Growing compatibility issues between eventlet and recent versions of CPython are reaching a critical point. de facto, these problems threaten all users of this library.
Openstack is the first victim of these issues:
https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/thread/YO5CZDVAJ6QSF734ALWSGNOQDDAIOXKI/#RZFUTBFTUCSHKVA6SOCWWIXEH3QJHMYT
We, developers from the Openstack community, offer to provide you with our help and support. We propose to come with you and strengthen your workforce and help you get eventlet back up and running for the next versions of Python to come.
To accept our help, you just have to grant writing rights to the eventlet repo to some of us. We could then help you manage reviews and PRs. We could help you manage backlogs. We could help you in managing the daily life of eventlet. You'll benefit from more resources at no cost.
We have already initiated discussions on this subject within Openstack governance.
https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/902585
Our long-term goal is to migrate Openstack to asyncio, however in the short and medium term we still need eventlet. Our mutual needs converge, so it would be a shame not to mutually benefit from them. It should be noted that in the long term (around 4 years), our goal will be to retire from eventlet (if everything goes as planned), and therefore, in the case that no one else is willing to maintain anymore eventlet, we will then retire eventlet. A planned retirement, hopefully with a complete migration plan to asyncio. An honorable end to a memorable project.
You can find more details about your plan in our Openstack governance discussion.
https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/902585
Let's go a long way together, let's save eventlet!
[1] https://www.sonatype.com/hubfs/9th-Annual-SSSC-Report.pdf
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