Feedback on migration to trait-based design

[madsmtm]

Thank you for your interest in expressing your feedback on Winit v0.30!

Background

Winit is moving towards a trait-based API for several reasons, see #3432 for details. This has quite a large impact on how you structure your code, and while the design is not yet optimal, and will need additional work, we feel confident that this is the right way forwards, so in v0.30, we've tried to provide a somewhat gentle update path.

Feedback

We're aware that the API is more verbose, that is to be expected when implementing an entire trait instead of letting the compiler figure out the type annotations of a closure, but we're interested in knowing what kinds of code is made harder or impossible with this new design? Were you using some pattern before that you can no longer do, or no longer easily do? Please state so in a comment on this issue!

---

In this release, we also changed how windows are created, but that is not strictly part of this issue - please submit a new issue if you're having trouble with that. Note that we're well aware that Option<Window> is a bit cumbersome, in the future, managing the state for windows and creating/destroying them at the right times will likely become easier to do, see #2903 for some of the progress on that.

[XavierCS-dev]

I used a mut closure as the users main loop for my game engine, but with this new setup, I am struggling to figure out how to set it up properly without also killing performance, any pointers? I only updated due to the issues with exclusive full screen on 0.29

[kchibisov]

Please look into CHANGELOG and migration guide in it. Closure is just a struct where each field is a capture variable. It's also not enforced.

[XavierCS-dev]

Please look into CHANGELOG and migration guide in it. Closure is just a struct where each field is a capture variable. It's also not enforced.

Thanks, I managed to figure it out

Call with

(self.mut_closure)(args)

in about_to_wait()

EDIT: Thanks for your work on this project I do appreciate the updates and fixes

[XavierCS-dev]

I am also finding I will need to restructure very significant parts of the engine if I am to use the new way of initialising windows. Currently, I use an app struct which contains the main engine state struct, however to initialise wgpu, the window is needed, however you can't get the window until during the event loop so wgpu can't be initialised until then, which means the user can't directly get access to the app struct, and can only get a mutable reference to it. I will also need to write and implement ApplicationHandler individually for each rendering backend.

[kchibisov]

But we just swapped Window::new(event_loop) to event_loop.create_new_window(), so it's the same as well. The only difference is that you need loop running to have non deprecated code, but you can not really work on android, etc if you don't do so anyway, so sounds like a benefit for a cross platform GPU stuff.

[XavierCS-dev]

But we just swapped Window::new(event_loop) to event_loop.create_new_window(), so it's the same as well. The only difference is that you need loop running to have non deprecated code, but you can not really work on android, etc if you don't do so anyway, so sounds like a benefit for a cross platform GPU stuff.

This is true, I would also rather not use deprecated code. I managed to get it working, very messy but I can fix it later. I am still finding that Exclusive full screen still doesn't work on Hyprland, although I could just be doing it wrong, and besides that is out of scope for this thread I believe.

[kchibisov]

Docs clearly say that exclusive fullscreen doens't exist on Wayland.

[XavierCS-dev]

Docs clearly say that exclusive fullscreen doens't exist on Wayland.

It seems I didn't understand the difference between borderless and Exclusive. The borderless mode seems to allow window sizes and resolutions different from the display's resolution, not what I expected from a borderless mode but I guess it is possible.

[kchibisov]

exclusive means that you get exclusive control. As in you can also modeset, as in change monitor resolution. Borderless just ordinary fullscreen one.

[tgross35]

I do think this is a much cleaner interface, but I really struggled getting something up and running with wgpu. The wgpu Surface typically borrows the Window which is easy with the event loop, but turns out to be self-referential when you need to construct the window within the resumed function. This was kind of a pain to get things working, but I wound up with something like this:

struct App {
    window: Option<Arc<Window>>,
    gfx_state: Option<GfxState>,
}

impl ApplicationHandler<MyUserEvent> for State {
    fn resumed(&mut self, event_loop: &ActiveEventLoop) {
        let win_attrs = Window::default_attributes()
            .with_title(/* ... */)
            .with_inner_size(/* ... */);
        let window = Arc::new(event_loop.create_window(win_attrs).unwrap());


        let gfx_state = GfxState::new(Arc::clone(&window));
        window.request_redraw()

        self.window = Some(window);
        self.gfx_state = Some(gfx_state);
    }

    fn window_event(&mut self, event_loop: &ActiveEventLoop, window_id: WindowId, event: WindowEvent) {
        // ...
        self.gfx_state.as_mut().unwrap().paint() // paint is 
    }
}

struct GfxState {
    device: wgpu::Device,
    surface_desc: wgpu::SurfaceConfiguration,
    surface: wgpu::Surface<'static>, // important part: 'static
    // ... all the other queues / buffers / etc needed
}

impl GfxState {
    fn new(window: Arc<Window>, app_state: &mut AppState) -> Self {
        let instance = wgpu::Instance::default();
        let size = window.inner_size();

        // important part: we can create a `wgpu::Surface<'static>` from an `Arc`
        let surface = instance.create_surface(window).unwrap();

        // ... configure pipelines

        Self { surface, /* ... */ }
    }

    fn paint(&mut self, state: &mut AppState) {
        // perform the rendering
    }
}

This could be slightly simplified by putting Arc<Window> and GfxState in a child struct within the same option. Does anyone have a better pattern?

[ifsheldon]

Based on @tgross35 comment, another issue comes up, which is async. Working with wgpu, we have to deal with some Futures like below

let instance = wgpu::Instance::default();
let surface = instance.create_surface(window).expect("Failed to create surface");
// need adapter to create the device and queue
let adapter = instance
    .request_adapter(&wgpu::RequestAdapterOptions {
        power_preference: wgpu::PowerPreference::default(),
        force_fallback_adapter: false,
        compatible_surface: Some(&surface),
    })
    .await
    .unwrap();
let (device, queue) = adapter
    .request_device(
        &wgpu::DeviceDescriptor {
            label: None,
            required_features: wgpu::Features::empty(), //The device you have limits the features you can use
            required_limits: wgpu::Limits::default(), //The limits field describes the limit of certain types of resource we can create
        },
        None,
    )
    .await
    .unwrap();

Unless the trait methods are async, we must use a blockon from an async executor. If winit internally also uses an async executor, then we may have two different async executors in use, which may be bad.

[lukexor]

On Web targets, async with wgpu is extra problematic as wasm_bindgen_futures::spawn_local doesn't support returning any results so it's not clear how to get the resolved futures back to the main thread of execution without passing them through channels or static mutexes. More details here: #3560

[hecrj]

In iced, we leverage async channels and await to write the event loop using an actual loop.

Why? Because with a loop, the borrow checker can infer a lot more. For instance, we can safely keep user interfaces (which borrow from application state) alive until a specific event happens. This is not possible with a trait-based approach (not even the closure approach) because it would entail self-references. I shared some more details about this approach in this PR: iced-rs/iced#597.

Therefore, the trait-based approach is just a bit of additional unnecessary complexity for iced. We will end up rewrapping each event in the trait methods and sending them through a channel anyways. For this reason, we will be using the deprecated API for now, which will save us the unnecessary match and rewrapping.

Is there any particular reason the closure approach is being deprecated? It seems quite strange, since the new API is actually relying on the deprecated one internally. Why not keep the original alive and offer the new one as a convenient alternative?

[kchibisov]

We need return values and sync callbacks. Some APIs mandate return to do e.g. hittest, sync resize, etc. If you do that async you basically blow up and not sync with the windowing systym resulting in visual artifacts, etc. callbacks don't scale at all as well and you can not build extensible systems like you can with extension traits.

The deprecated APIs only here to give some leeway, they'll be gone this week or so from master.

Also, the only difference is that there's no async keyword in traits, but all winit traits are async by matter of operations that are planned. Some can callback to you, some will deliver resources, it's just, you can not make them async/await because you must preserve the order.

[hecrj]

I see. Return values do seem quite handy.

If the deprecated APIs are going away, I'll switch to the trait-based approach.

iced's event loop isn't really concurrent. The event loop future is polled manually after an event is sent. We only leverage async to create a resumable loop, but every event is still processed in order in a blocking manner; and a proper request/response protocol can be built through the channels.

[kchibisov]

There will be async shim for the current trait, because web needs it, since it can not block and in the future there could be an option to write your own backend/loop structures.

The traits are also needed to split winit, which you can not do with closures really.